Do the Scriptures contain commandments?

[Heber13]

Are there specific commandments in the bible (other than the 10, and the 2 Greatest commandments)?

While studying about exaltation, I found this comment:

Contrary to what many think, just believing in God and being virtuous and pure are not sufficient to qualify a person for entrance into the kingdom of heaven. The Savior’s parable about the ten virgins and their desire to enter the kingdom of heaven makes this point very clear.
...[See Matt 25:1-2]
Take note that the Lord was not talking about five thieves and sinners and five good people; he was talking about ten virgins, ten pure people who believed in God and had a desire to enter into the kingdom of heaven. The five foolish virgins had failed to prepare. Their lights were out; they were in darkness.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, Jan 1973, 44

In Elder Brockbank (a member of the Q12 at the time) goes on to specifically state:

It is important to know that all of the requirements for entrance into the kingdom of God were personally given by Jesus Christ and are recorded in his holy scriptures. There will be many good people turned away from entrance into the kingdom of heaven because they failed to know and follow the Lord’s plan of life. They were more interested in following doctrines of men and commandments of men than they were in following the doctrines of the Lord, as recorded in his scriptures. They were more interested in defending their sect or denomination than in knowing the truth.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, Jan 1973, 44

The more I studied about it, the more I wondered if there are any "commandments" to be found in the scriptures? Even specific references commonly quoted are really not so clear as commandments to me when I look at them again (unless I'm parsing words incorrectly). For example, are these really clearly commandments:
- "Will a man rob God?"=Tithing is a commandment
- "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." = Baptism is a commandment
- "And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies." = Word of Wisdom is a commandment

The more I read through scriptures, the more I see how they have been interpreted by people and adopted by the church...not specifically stated in the scriptures by way of commandment.

The Pharisees were the example of "drawing near unto [God] with their mouth...but their heart is far from [God]":

The Pharisees, in all of their dedication and their love for God and the ancient prophets and their obedience to man-made righteousness, which appeared to be taken from the scriptures, did not qualify for entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, Jan 1973, 44

Is that really different than the church today and all the commandments we must follow to go to the temple and we are taught to go to Heaven? Those standards are all currently defined by men in the church, nothing is clearly stated in the scriptures.

Is this the paradox:
1. Do not follow man-made commandments but follow the commandments of God as taught in the scriptures.
2. The scriptures are recorded by men and interpreted by men, and therefore all commandments in the scriptures are man-made.

Who can help me understand this idea of commandments taught in the scriptures?

[Ray Degraw]

Commandments are and always have been mortal attempts to explain how those mortals feel it is best to act toward each other and God. At one extreme, commandments included human sacrifice; at the other extreme, commandments are denied completely. In the middle, where I and the VAST majority of people live, commandments are our best guess about how we should act and show our devotion to God.

I really like the core principles underlying most of the "commandments" we have in the LDS Church. I don't like a lot of the hedges we've built around those principles, and I don't like a lot of the practical extrapolations we've created - so I don't focus much on them, even as I live many of them simply for the sake of a community I love.

In the end, for me, it all boils down to the commandments on which all others hang. If a rule helps me feel closer to God and my fellow mortals, I "obey" it. If it actually makes me feel further from God and my fellow mortals, I don't.

Here is the real paradox for many of you still struggling with Stage 4 issues:

I obey lots of rules that others consider to be commandments simply because I don't care enough to make waves and cause difficulties. Why fight the insignificant? A Priesthood leader asks me to wear a white shirt every Sunday due to my calling? Fine; I couldn't care less, so it's not worth fighting. I wear the white shirt. Tea is prohibited in the Word of Wisdom? Fine; I couldn't care less, so it's not worth fighting. I don't drink tea. Vicarious ordinances are framed as necessary for others' salvation? Fine; I believe God will take care of it all no matter what I do, and I find the symbolism of vicarious ordinances beautiful, so it's not worth fighting. I participate in vicarious ordinances. A prophet asks women to wear only one pair of earrings? Fine; I couldn't care less, so it's not worth fighting. I support my wife and daughters in wearing one pair of earrings.

Life's too short and precious to waste time fighting about the inconsequential. I love people too much to cause them to suffer over what is important to them. I couldn't care less, so I don't fight.

[Peaceandjoy]

Ray,
I'm not sure how I feel about what you said.. So, we just do these things even if we don't believe in them just to make others happy?

[Ray Degraw]

Peaceandjoy, remember one thing I said, with an additional clarification:

If a rule helps me feel closer to God and my fellow mortals, I "obey" it. If it actually makes me feel further from God and my fellow mortals, I don't.

The stuff I mentioned after that really belongs to a thrid set of rules - those that neither draw me closer to God nor pull me further from God. Those are the ones about which I simply don't care - and those are the ones I follow simply for the sake of the community. I don't do so "just to make others happy" - but I don't fight them when I know others won't understand and my fighting them will make people unhappy or cause them pain. I don't need to have everything I would want in an ideal world, and I don't need to have everything I would want if I lived alone. I'm finr with making concessions in areas that I think are inconsequential - and the more confident I am in my own beliefs and charitable I become in my view of others, the more things become truly inconsequential to me.

As I said, I know that is difficult for people in the middle of Stage 4 struggles to understand, but it's an important part of finding peace, imo.

[Heber13]

Ray, I really like these particular points you made:

If a rule helps me feel closer to God and my fellow mortals, I "obey" it. If it actually makes me feel further from God and my fellow mortals, I don't.
...
Life's too short and precious to waste time fighting about the inconsequential. I love people too much to cause them to suffer over what is important to them.

Very well said.

This is how I approached my bishop's challenge for me to attend the temple...in fact, instead of just doing it because I thought my wife and bishop would be happier if I tried to go...I actually put my heart into hoping I could learn something and get something out of it. There can be a difference between just going through the motions and doing something out of respect or love for others but whole-heartedly doing it. While it may be inconsequential to me, or something that I believe is just man-made rules that people in stage 3 take more literally than I do, it doesn't mean there still isn't something that I can learn and benefit from, even if I view it more diagonally (as Rix would say). The commandment can still be beneficial because I choose to make it so, not necessarily because the commandment itself is really eternally critical.

And that is how I reconcile how commandments can change over time, or how the scriptures I quotes above become interpreted literally, while other scriptures are interpreted more broadly (or sometimes even ignored all together).

[Tom Haws]

While it may be inconsequential to me, or something that I believe is just man-made rules that people in stage 3 take more literally than I do, it doesn't mean there still isn't something that I can learn and benefit from, even if I view it more diagonally (as Rix would say).

Heh. As I tell my kids, "If somebody tells you to do something, and you don't know it to be wrong, try doing it. It might do you some good."

[Brian Johnston]

I think this question has two levels of answer:

1. Yes. There are commandments in the scriptures, both explicit and implicit.

The writers of scripture included concepts of moral behavior in their works. There are all kinds of prescribed and proscribed behaviors in LDS scripture, everything from WofW to beliefs we must hold.

2. Sort of Yes and also maybe No -- a more nuanced answer.

We are all here in this community because we ran into problems with #1 above. I am not saying we are/were all horrible sinners, but let's face it, a lot of stuff just plain contradicts itself and doesn't always make sense in our lives. I hate to make it sound like we graduated from #1, like we can do whatever we want without consequences, because that is not true. I will still suffer the natural consequences of my actions, both good and bad.

At our level of talking about the commandments, we start to realize that the writers of scripture were presenting their personal ideas and their personal interactions with the divine (God, etc.). We have sort of entered a level of being peers with those writers, because we are trying to figure this out first-hand through our own experience and interactions. What worked for the Apostle Paul might not always work for me. But WE are now responsible for ourselves. When we do this, there's no more Apostle Paul to blame (just picking an example).

What are the vital commandments that we MUST follow? Easy -- all of the ones that are revealed to us as "true." Easy peasy ... or is it?

[just me]

This is where I go into the symbolic answers I find in the scriptures.

I must do what (the light of) Christ commands me to do. Those are my commandments to follow.

I must not rely on the arm of the flesh. That is, I can't do things just because other humans tell me to or wrote it in a book.

I love Galatians 5:

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
...
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I'm all about following the Spirit. My inner compass. Whatever you want to call it, there is something inside us that guide us. We will have the fruits of the Spirit if we are following it.

[Peaceandjoy]

Thanks Ray,
Sorry, I tend to react emotionally without reading the whole thing carefully.
Thanks Just me, I want to get to the point where I am following my inner compass. I tend to want someone to tell me what to do. I need to learn to trust in myself, which is hard for me for some reason.

[Ray Degraw]

I need to learn to trust in myself, which is hard for me for some reason.

Emotional abuse is not easy to overcome. Hang in there. It will take a while, but recognition is half the battle.