Let them who seek continue…

“Let those who seek continue seeking until they find.  When they find, they will become troubled. When they become troubled, they will be astonished, and will rule over the All.”

-Jesus Christ, Gospel of Thomas

What does this mean to you?

10 comments for “Let them who seek continue…

  1. valoel
    April 10, 2009 at 7:27 am

    That is what I love about statements like this. I posted it. Our responses tell us about our self, and not so much about the actual statement. The statement can certainly just be nonsense, but so is an ink blot or the shape of a cloud.

    Does it trouble you? Are you troubled?

    The Gospel of Thomas dates pretty close in proximity to the time of Jesus. At least the alleged author claimed to know Jesus and interact with him, unlike Paul and many of the alleged authors of the Gospels. I personally enjoy all their views.

  2. Tom Haws
    April 10, 2009 at 10:40 am

    To me the saying is a reassurance to those to believe “there is more”, but who are restrained by the culture that says, “you will get hurt”. Thomas’ Jesus says, “You will get hurt, you will be amazed, and then you will overcome.” And I say, “Amen.” Fear not!

  3. valoel
    April 10, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    We often feel pain and confusion when the Lord is expanding our horizons. It’s difficult to let go of the comfortable places we are used to, that surety we once felt. We’re not there yet, not where God wants us to go. This is a life long process.

    I see in this statement a reassurance in times of struggle. Yes, the “emperor is naked” so to say. How shocking! How many times do we realize this in our lives, when we were so sure we had it all figured out. Look at our fancy clothes! “No” says God. Take another look. You’re not quite there yet.

    We seek.
    We find.
    We are troubled.
    And then when we digest and assimilate this new meal, we are astonished!

  4. Eric
    April 20, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Please forgive the length of my comment to follow but I have thought about this a lot lately:

    Consider the following if you will: 1) Is it possible that God teaches us by purposefully confusing us? Please search out examples in all scripture about this. Think about the story of Lot of the Old Testament. Genesis 19: 30-36. Can God move his purposes forward where transgression is present? Where sin has been committed? Does that make it wrong or just confusing? Is there a reason why God would make it confusing? No way!! But is it possible???

    2) Christ spoke in parables so that only the BELIEVERS would understand. In Luke 8:10 it reads: “And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.” Christ knew the hearts of the Pharisees and Sadducees- he knew that their hearts were uncircumcised and that they needed signs to BELIEVE. Belief is a choice in the face of a mountain of evidence to the contrary! Hebrews 11:1 reads, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” I would add that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT UNDERSTOOD or NOT LOGICAL or NOT KNOWN.

    3) Read in Mathew 15:22-38. Christ appeared to be “rude” to a Canaanite woman who sought that her daughter would be healed. He put her off but her faith was so great (belief, not knowledge or logic) that he relented and followed the spirit of the law. He was not sent to teach the Gentiles but made an exception for this black woman because of her FAITH. Paul and others were to spread the good Word to the Gentiles but Christ could not help himself. Why does Christ appear to be prejudiced against this black woman and other gentiles? It was a mission assigned to him by his Father to teach the Jews, and he did only the will of the Father. But he made some exceptions when the spirit dictated. I have read it somewhere by some “apostates” that some black saints were given the Priesthood by Joseph Smith in his time. They use that idea to convict him yet I BELIEVE that this information actually is supportive of him. Contradictions and paradoxes are actually a sign in a way that the Lord is doing his work. Because we cannot make sense of it at ALL!! We have to have a desire to believe in it first (even in the face of all evidence pointing to the contrary) and then he will open ours eyes and give us some Light on the subject. This Light is discernible which gives us some knowledge IN THAT THING- but we cannot conclude that everything is true and cast aside our faith…we still have many things yet to believe and gain knowledge about. But the prerequisite is that we believe. Many of us gained a witness that the BofM contains the word of God and the gospel of Christ and we WRONGLY assumed that everything else was true and set aside our faith!! We are allowed and expected to continue to have faith in all remaining principles of the gospel until we exercise it and gain Light and Knowledge about the remaining truths. We can have spiritual witnesses of Joseph Smith, the Great Flood, the Atonement (try to explain or logic that one!), Thomas Monson and many more if we desire it.

    4) Please read the following account in Mark 16: 9 Now when Jesus was arisen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    We are not supposed to understand it or agree with it or be able to logic through it. I personally believe that he throws a lot of curve balls to force us to BELIEVE against ALL reasons to the contrary. This is true faith for me. I know all the stuff about Church History- I just see it in a completely different light. My new sight came slowly and it started with a desire to believe or at least the desire to acknowledge that I did not KNOW with 100% certainty that it was NOT true. I never considered that NOT KNOWING was an option once I found something in the Church History that offended me enough. Once I found the stuff that was TRULY WRONG, IMMORAL or OFFENSIVE I made a DECISION that I would no longer believe that GOD could bring about his purposes through Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Lot of the Old Testament, and many other things. I can see how becoming an agnostic is a real possibility for many because many things cannot and never will be explainable. Many of us Christians who apostatized from Mormonism would not entertain the ideas or logic of atheism or agnosticism because it scared the hell out of us. The fact that we cannot prove God exists is of no consequence when you have decided to believe for your own personal witnesses and reasons. You can throw all kinds of reasons not to believe and we will remain firm. But I submit that if you have to have everything proven to you about Mormonism then you may follow logic down that same road. I am no longer afraid of that road because I do not expect to find the answers- that is not how the game of life was set up by our very humorous but loving Father in Heaven.

    Christ said in Matt. 21: 21 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.”

    This is part of what I feel has been given to me through this experience and it has given me hope, faith and a desire to gain additional spiritual witnesses to things that are unknowable to the natural man. Once I was able to forgive and not convict Joseph Smith for all his sins- I also was able to forgive myself and free myself from that cage of guilt and feelings of unworthiness that I have fought against for most of my life. I remain free which I felt when I both convicted Joseph Smith at the start of this and when I let it go and put it on the altar at the end of this. Boy does it feel good to be open to all things that lead us to Christ!!

    Have a great day and week.

  5. Tom Haws
    April 21, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    When I die and go to heaven, my spirit will fly to the bosom of a God who does not intentionally confuse, but who loves. That’s simply the light that will attract me like a moth. If you are attracted to a God who deceives, so be it.

    Confusion flees when light goes on.

  6. April 24, 2009 at 9:50 am

    It means you should stop trying to read and cite passages divorced from context. It actually makes good sense in the context of the Gnostic myth. Taken out of that context it becomes totally meaningless, a silly “proof-text” that means whatever anyone wants it to mean.

    No, I am not going to provide the context. It would take several pages of text to give that context which scholars have done much better than I could. Read a book on Ancient Christianity and/or 2nd century gnosticism.

  7. valoel
    April 24, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    I don’t think God creates confusion, or tries to “trick” us. I think WE are confused. He emits love, light and goodness, whatever words you want to describe it with. We are the ones that don’t understand. I feel like I grow over time, and through that process let go of my own confusion, the confusion and misunderstanding that I create.

    I seek. I am wrong, because I am not yet perfectly in harmony with God, no yet one with Him. Therefore, I am troubled. But when those breakthroughs happen, I become astonished! That last emotion is a positive one. That is how I read it.

  8. Ray
    June 8, 2009 at 11:42 am

    I agree with David that it makes perfect sense in the context of the comprehensive Gnostic writings of the time.

    Without the backing of that foundation for deeper meaning, I would read it simply as a classic progressive list of characteristics and development: seek, find, be troubled (realize how wrong previous and common assumptions are and feel “troubled” because of it), be astonished (at the new comprehension and knowledge that is gained), use that to rule. I like it and think it is a great way to express the idea it is presenting – especially when put in the full context of the original viewpoint.

  9. Peggy
    June 14, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Anyone who has seriously delved into the scriptures, especially the Bible, on a meaningful, scholarly level will have to admit that paradoxes lie strewn about begging a questioning mind to investigate the apparent incongruities in the outlandish stories and puzzling parables.

    I didn’t come across this saying until after I had been seeking and disturbed for long while. It confirmed my experience.

    I see God gleefully clapping his hands with joy when anyone discovers this ingenious mystery of paradoxes.

  10. valoel
    July 20, 2009 at 5:56 am

    That was a beautiful way of describing the situation Peggy. Thanks!

Comments are closed.